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	<title>Comments on: How can chaperones act in evolution (chapter III, blogging in Just Science 08)</title>
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	<link>http://biopinionated.com/2008/02/06/how-can-chaperones-act-in-evolution-chapter-iii-blogging-in-just-science-08/</link>
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		<title>By: Once again Hsp90 changes how we think about evolution &#171; The Sciphu Weblog</title>
		<link>http://biopinionated.com/2008/02/06/how-can-chaperones-act-in-evolution-chapter-iii-blogging-in-just-science-08/#comment-127</link>
		<dc:creator>Once again Hsp90 changes how we think about evolution &#171; The Sciphu Weblog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Jul 2008 13:45:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sciphu.wordpress.com/?p=38#comment-127</guid>
		<description>[...] in the  5 post series for JustScience week 08 (Revolution Evolution, Presenting&#8230;.Hsp90, How can chaperones act in evolution, Evidence for Hsp90 involvement in rapid evolution of new traits and Hsp90 to end controversies in [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] in the  5 post series for JustScience week 08 (Revolution Evolution, Presenting&#8230;.Hsp90, How can chaperones act in evolution, Evidence for Hsp90 involvement in rapid evolution of new traits and Hsp90 to end controversies in [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Larry Moran</title>
		<link>http://biopinionated.com/2008/02/06/how-can-chaperones-act-in-evolution-chapter-iii-blogging-in-just-science-08/#comment-24</link>
		<dc:creator>Larry Moran</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 Feb 2008 21:54:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sciphu.wordpress.com/?p=38#comment-24</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;This to me is a better explanation than the one arguing that species rely on the continous presence of an off-chance subtype to meet changing conditions. Wouldn’t evolution just stop if that’s the only mechanism to evolve rapidly ?&lt;/i&gt;

These questions reveal two areas where you and I disagree.

First, I don&#039;t believe that changing conditions drive  most of evolution.

Second, I don&#039;t believe that &quot;rapid evolution&quot; is part of the discussion about punctuated equilibria. At least not the sort of rapid evolution you are trying to account for.  

&lt;i&gt;Are there sufficient examples of such phenotypic subtypes to explain evolution as we know it?&lt;/i&gt;

Of course. Just look at our own species. If the various subgroups had remained isolated for another 100,000 years we might have split into several species. The differences between Asians and Africans are at least as great as the differences between many species.
  
&lt;i&gt;Also if there is “Nothing special going on there”, why is punctuated equilibria controversial?&lt;/i&gt;

For four reasons. (1) Some people doubt that it exists. (2) Some people don&#039;t understand it and think that it&#039;s not an important contribution to evolutionary theory. (3) Some people understand it and recognize that it&#039;s a threat to gradualism. (4) It&#039;s the basis of hierarchical theory and macroevolutionary processes like species sorting. Many people aren&#039;t ready to consider such things.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>This to me is a better explanation than the one arguing that species rely on the continous presence of an off-chance subtype to meet changing conditions. Wouldn’t evolution just stop if that’s the only mechanism to evolve rapidly ?</i></p>
<p>These questions reveal two areas where you and I disagree.</p>
<p>First, I don&#8217;t believe that changing conditions drive  most of evolution.</p>
<p>Second, I don&#8217;t believe that &#8220;rapid evolution&#8221; is part of the discussion about punctuated equilibria. At least not the sort of rapid evolution you are trying to account for.  </p>
<p><i>Are there sufficient examples of such phenotypic subtypes to explain evolution as we know it?</i></p>
<p>Of course. Just look at our own species. If the various subgroups had remained isolated for another 100,000 years we might have split into several species. The differences between Asians and Africans are at least as great as the differences between many species.</p>
<p><i>Also if there is “Nothing special going on there”, why is punctuated equilibria controversial?</i></p>
<p>For four reasons. (1) Some people doubt that it exists. (2) Some people don&#8217;t understand it and think that it&#8217;s not an important contribution to evolutionary theory. (3) Some people understand it and recognize that it&#8217;s a threat to gradualism. (4) It&#8217;s the basis of hierarchical theory and macroevolutionary processes like species sorting. Many people aren&#8217;t ready to consider such things.</p>
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		<title>By: sciphu</title>
		<link>http://biopinionated.com/2008/02/06/how-can-chaperones-act-in-evolution-chapter-iii-blogging-in-just-science-08/#comment-23</link>
		<dc:creator>sciphu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Feb 2008 17:54:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sciphu.wordpress.com/?p=38#comment-23</guid>
		<description>&quot;.....Punctuated equilibrium is not about new mutations, it’s about speciation......&quot;. 

This is why I feel punctuated equilibrium is relevant to the Hsp90 story. Hsp90 promotes speciation not by creating new mutations, but by exposing existing ones, which in my mind fits perfectly with the punctuation concept. The new twist is that the existing mutations are hidden rather than exposed as a phenotypic subtype in a  larger population. With canalization through Hsp90, the new phenotype is indistinguishable from the rest of the population until times of stress. This to me is a better explanation than the one arguing that species rely on the continous presence of an off-chance subtype to meet changing conditions. Wouldn&#039;t evolution just stop  if that&#039;s the only mechanism to evolve rapidly ? Are there sufficient examples of such phenotypic subtypes to explain evolution as we know it ?  Also if there is &quot;Nothing special going on there&quot;, why is punctuated equilibria controversial ? 

My apologies if the diagram is misleading, but to me there is nothing in this diagram (exept maybe that it is two-dimensional), or in my text, that excludes the co-existence of the parent species and the new one.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;&#8230;..Punctuated equilibrium is not about new mutations, it’s about speciation&#8230;&#8230;&#8221;. </p>
<p>This is why I feel punctuated equilibrium is relevant to the Hsp90 story. Hsp90 promotes speciation not by creating new mutations, but by exposing existing ones, which in my mind fits perfectly with the punctuation concept. The new twist is that the existing mutations are hidden rather than exposed as a phenotypic subtype in a  larger population. With canalization through Hsp90, the new phenotype is indistinguishable from the rest of the population until times of stress. This to me is a better explanation than the one arguing that species rely on the continous presence of an off-chance subtype to meet changing conditions. Wouldn&#8217;t evolution just stop  if that&#8217;s the only mechanism to evolve rapidly ? Are there sufficient examples of such phenotypic subtypes to explain evolution as we know it ?  Also if there is &#8220;Nothing special going on there&#8221;, why is punctuated equilibria controversial ? </p>
<p>My apologies if the diagram is misleading, but to me there is nothing in this diagram (exept maybe that it is two-dimensional), or in my text, that excludes the co-existence of the parent species and the new one.</p>
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		<title>By: Larry Moran</title>
		<link>http://biopinionated.com/2008/02/06/how-can-chaperones-act-in-evolution-chapter-iii-blogging-in-just-science-08/#comment-22</link>
		<dc:creator>Larry Moran</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Feb 2008 16:50:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sciphu.wordpress.com/?p=38#comment-22</guid>
		<description>Look at the diagram you posted from Dr. Dennis O’Neil. That&#039;s not punctuated equilibrium, that&#039;s a form of gradualism where a single species gradually transforms into one species and then another.

The key concept in punctuated equilibria is that evolution is coupled to speciation by cladogenesis. One species splits into two. One of the species shows phenotypic change while the other one does not.

This is explained by a founder effect version of speciation where a subset of alleles is fixed in a small isolated population. Nothing special going on there. The alleles were already in the large population. There is nothing mysterious about the process underlying punctuated equilibria. The original paper even referenced Mayr and gave him credit for his work on speciation. 

Let me repeat. Punctuated equilibrium is not about new mutations, it&#039;s about speciation.

The other thing to keep in mind is that both species continue to exist side-by-side for millions of years. This is difficult to reconcile with your diagram that links phenotypic change to a &quot;rapidly changing environment.&quot; How do you explain the fact that the parent species seems to be very happy in this so-called &quot;rapidly changing environment.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Look at the diagram you posted from Dr. Dennis O’Neil. That&#8217;s not punctuated equilibrium, that&#8217;s a form of gradualism where a single species gradually transforms into one species and then another.</p>
<p>The key concept in punctuated equilibria is that evolution is coupled to speciation by cladogenesis. One species splits into two. One of the species shows phenotypic change while the other one does not.</p>
<p>This is explained by a founder effect version of speciation where a subset of alleles is fixed in a small isolated population. Nothing special going on there. The alleles were already in the large population. There is nothing mysterious about the process underlying punctuated equilibria. The original paper even referenced Mayr and gave him credit for his work on speciation. </p>
<p>Let me repeat. Punctuated equilibrium is not about new mutations, it&#8217;s about speciation.</p>
<p>The other thing to keep in mind is that both species continue to exist side-by-side for millions of years. This is difficult to reconcile with your diagram that links phenotypic change to a &#8220;rapidly changing environment.&#8221; How do you explain the fact that the parent species seems to be very happy in this so-called &#8220;rapidly changing environment.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: sciphu</title>
		<link>http://biopinionated.com/2008/02/06/how-can-chaperones-act-in-evolution-chapter-iii-blogging-in-just-science-08/#comment-21</link>
		<dc:creator>sciphu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Feb 2008 16:31:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sciphu.wordpress.com/?p=38#comment-21</guid>
		<description>Thank you for your comment and thank you for referring to these posts on your website. Now..., my concept of punctuated equilibria is,.. put bluntly: &quot;evolution in bursts&quot; ....period. The link between Gould and hopeful monsters may be wrong, but that does not change the fact that there is a need to explain rapid non-linear evolution. The reason creationists use these arguments is not mainly because they misunderstand Gould&#039;s theories, but because there is a real lack of credible, solid scientific explanations for evolution in bursts. Explaining evolutionary change as the  result of a slow, random and constant mutation rate is just not sufficient. Your statement &quot;In most cases, it takes an expert to recognize that speciation has occurred in the fossil record.&quot; underscores this point, since the diversity and plasticity in nature is obvious to even the unschooled child. The argument is otherwise irrelevant since it is merely a description of skill requirements in paleontology/biology. Canalization through Hsp90 is a credible, scientific hypothesis explaining the world better than the prevailing interpretation of evolution theory. I am looking forward to the canalization hypothesis being challenged, but in order for that to happen it must be accepted as a valid theory.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you for your comment and thank you for referring to these posts on your website. Now&#8230;, my concept of punctuated equilibria is,.. put bluntly: &#8220;evolution in bursts&#8221; &#8230;.period. The link between Gould and hopeful monsters may be wrong, but that does not change the fact that there is a need to explain rapid non-linear evolution. The reason creationists use these arguments is not mainly because they misunderstand Gould&#8217;s theories, but because there is a real lack of credible, solid scientific explanations for evolution in bursts. Explaining evolutionary change as the  result of a slow, random and constant mutation rate is just not sufficient. Your statement &#8220;In most cases, it takes an expert to recognize that speciation has occurred in the fossil record.&#8221; underscores this point, since the diversity and plasticity in nature is obvious to even the unschooled child. The argument is otherwise irrelevant since it is merely a description of skill requirements in paleontology/biology. Canalization through Hsp90 is a credible, scientific hypothesis explaining the world better than the prevailing interpretation of evolution theory. I am looking forward to the canalization hypothesis being challenged, but in order for that to happen it must be accepted as a valid theory.</p>
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		<title>By: Larry Moran</title>
		<link>http://biopinionated.com/2008/02/06/how-can-chaperones-act-in-evolution-chapter-iii-blogging-in-just-science-08/#comment-20</link>
		<dc:creator>Larry Moran</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Feb 2008 14:03:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sciphu.wordpress.com/?p=38#comment-20</guid>
		<description>Your concept of punctuated equilibria and your understanding of how it works is completely wrong.

Punctuated equilibria has nothing to do with macromutations and hopeful monsters.

&lt;a href=&quot;http://sandwalk.blogspot.com/2008/01/macromutations-and-punctuated.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Macromutations and Punctuated Equilibria&lt;/a&gt;

The changes seen during the &quot;punctuations&quot; are the perfectly normal kinds of evolutionary changes seen in typical speciation events. In most cases, it takes an expert to recognize that speciation has occurred in the fossil record.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Your concept of punctuated equilibria and your understanding of how it works is completely wrong.</p>
<p>Punctuated equilibria has nothing to do with macromutations and hopeful monsters.</p>
<p><a href="http://sandwalk.blogspot.com/2008/01/macromutations-and-punctuated.html" rel="nofollow">Macromutations and Punctuated Equilibria</a></p>
<p>The changes seen during the &#8220;punctuations&#8221; are the perfectly normal kinds of evolutionary changes seen in typical speciation events. In most cases, it takes an expert to recognize that speciation has occurred in the fossil record.</p>
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		<title>By: Models of Hsp90 in evolution (final chapter, blogging in Just Science 08) &#171; The Sciphu Weblog</title>
		<link>http://biopinionated.com/2008/02/06/how-can-chaperones-act-in-evolution-chapter-iii-blogging-in-just-science-08/#comment-19</link>
		<dc:creator>Models of Hsp90 in evolution (final chapter, blogging in Just Science 08) &#171; The Sciphu Weblog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Feb 2008 09:42:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sciphu.wordpress.com/?p=38#comment-19</guid>
		<description>[...] First we have the idea of punctuated equilibrium and hopeful monsters discussed in my previous post. To expand on these ideas let&#8217;s also include the theory of canalization. Canalization explains [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] First we have the idea of punctuated equilibrium and hopeful monsters discussed in my previous post. To expand on these ideas let&#8217;s also include the theory of canalization. Canalization explains [...]</p>
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		<title>By: The Sciphu Weblog</title>
		<link>http://biopinionated.com/2008/02/06/how-can-chaperones-act-in-evolution-chapter-iii-blogging-in-just-science-08/#comment-18</link>
		<dc:creator>The Sciphu Weblog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Feb 2008 09:40:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sciphu.wordpress.com/?p=38#comment-18</guid>
		<description>[...] How can chaperones act in evolution (chapter III, blogging in Just Science&#160;08)  [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] How can chaperones act in evolution (chapter III, blogging in Just Science&nbsp;08)  [...]</p>
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